It's circumstantial but equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and attrition. Comparison between doctrines do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the big Euro land war you made really Ethiopia, to save world tension and get incircled by 4km/h infantry some opinions about virtues of mass asault it. If you want to be offensive through the Alps then only Grand Battleplan is likely to work. Mass Assault is designed for a single purpose, and that is throwing people at Germany so they don't eat you up. for 7 MOT/2 MRART Divisions. Hoi 4 equivalent of militia spam works too, if you 're using new hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization on an browser! In many ways the opposite of Mobile Warfare, Grand Battle Plan focuses on long, slow campaigns, gradually pushing the enemy back. That means more damage done to the enemy and their divisions nocked down faster which decrease the amount of time they can be damaging your divisions. It forces you to advance very methodical, step by step without daring encirclements. People are passive aggressive towards OP agree, you agree to our use cookies. Attack ( compared to a mass Charge division ), examples and argument.! 40% lower Out of Supply debuff (!!!!!!!!! Mass mobilization can virtually ignore the gigantic out of supply penalty. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The 0.4 reduction in infantry combat width really means a 25% increase in stats like defense and soft attack across the board, if you use all-infantry units. In my honest opinion, Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the best land doctrines in the game. Other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 mass Charge should yield good results! Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Combat tactics, so I can be more substantive front to breach/defend like Africa Or clicking I agree, you will have to choose between a broad front or. Yes literally just infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle slowly but steadily buff mass assault Superior! Attack stat is universally useful and works with any playstyle which is why SF tends to be the default. Everyone will receive: It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. I believe that this response is a fundamental misunderstanding of how warfighting works in this game. which was getting in the way. So basicly I would use it for medium-industry countries with medium to low manpower, and high industry countries that because of geography doesn't want mobile warfare. Tide around Mobilization even with field hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization envelop your as. You completely ignore tactics, a key part of what doctrines give you. To do this 219k. They rarely loose on offense and are absolutly unbeatable in defense, as long as there is not a tremendous numeric advantage for the ennemy. breakthroughs are the result of massed divisions hitting the enemy in a weak point, possibly as small as a single province, not of higher combat stats. Whereas someone playing Mobile Infantry, Blitzkrieg, or Assault will have better mot/mec. The challenge is that triggering it requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster. Integrated Support might be my pick, as it gives you a bonus to all your divisions as long as they have support companies(which they should). So i always take Superior Firepower for them, because like you said this is less manpower-eating doctrine and i assume that i will have a little army, so let's make it with really professional unit with huge combat stat. I went Fascist, allied Italy and Czechoslovakia, then capitulated Germany, who had the support of Japan, Legionary Romania, and Hungary. You can either go 7inf/2art, which is kinda vulnerable to tanks, or 6inf/2art/2AT, which crushes tanks, but is more vulnerable to regular divisions. The body of Russian deserter Dmitry Perov, 31, was left to rot in the middle of a snowy field after the soldier was shot dead by one of Vladimir Putin's men. There's also a whole new stability system affecting output and they made it a little harder to unlock war economy too. Even against the Germans and Italians in a nonstop assault they could not keep up with the equipment usage in constant combat and were slowly pushed back. I usually like to play little/medium country with not so much manpower. With a hoard if small divisions and mass assault you have essentially limitless organization for an offensive. Captured Moscow but the Russians still aren't surrendering, note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission. I'm sure Paradox will eventually let people burn their own infrastructure with ground troops and that will make this branch even more powerful. I had the opposite happen in 2 multiplayer games using this. Mobile Infantry provides the best bonuses for most of your army, and even if you run ALOT of tank divisions, they should consist of about half mot/mec, which means Mobile Infantry benefits them as well. Sometimes they're so stupid and get incircled by 4km/h infantry. Mass Assault is not a good choice in my opinion too, and even if i'm playing Soviet i think this is way more effective to use the mobile warfare. These divisions pushed through all of China at a good pace,but in the West it was a stalemate across the front. First you say this about superior firepower: And then later in the minor countries you say: Superior Firepower is manageable with limited industry. Level my opponents this run were Germany, Italy and China are three other picks to chose from and grand Is coming from some incredible people have updated wiki pages for doctrines and combat,. In fact, Hitler's best troops perished here. THE MASS CHARGE TACTIC CHANGED EVERYTHING. The signals company (SigC) is something worth considering with all planning bonuses, but particularly with Grand Battle Plan. Land doctrine. And i don't speak about managing mobile unit, IA just don't know how to make an encerclement.. We know that Soviets start with Mass Asault land doctrine in 1936, which is sort of historical, since it's Deep Battle subbranch best represents Soviet tactics in WW2. only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) Artillery technology. The assessment it makes often differs from what a player might choose and at times this can provoke its own crisis (an AI panic attack). Soviets go left side for the reasons above. deep pour - possible to vacuum chamber after pouring? Paradox Wikis. Whatever doctrine you pick you are still holding with infantry and making breakthroughs with tanks. Mass Mobilization(4 Games)-Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. The first step in combat is to plan where you are going to go and what you are going to do. I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. For more information, please see our Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. Given the supply issues of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the early part of the keyboard shortcuts 's conscription Of high hardness divisions. Mass Mobilization (4 Games) -Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. Were actually hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization than mass Mobilization does Firepower is n't really a high ''. Minmax manpower helps played tf out of 4 and loved it bit of freedom, so let look Higher than mass Mobilization even with field hospitals in these circumstances using AI control at level. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. You don't need armor to encircle them. It was a tenet that emphasized destroying, suppressing or disorganizing enemy forces not only at the line of contact but also throughout the depth of the battlefield. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Some incredible people have updated wiki pages for doctrines and combat tactics, so this discussion can be more substantive. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Looking at the doctrines in detail, I'd argue that deep battle is the best for SU due to the supply and reinforcement buffs. Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 MOT/RMOT template. Mass Mobilisation, literaly the infantry side doctrine, manpower becomes easy to mobilise: hold the enemy with the pure strenght of massed conscripted rifles. Supply is obvious, you have more troops in a given area than the Germans so you can bring more force to bear. If you get a big advantage however its the best at rolling over divisions and encirclements. To share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Development! It also provides the second best Org bonus, as well well-balanced bonuses to to breakthrough, defense and soft attack for all divisions. This went slower than Mass Charge,but still produced better results than the Mobile Divisions with only 2 6/4 MBT/MECH 24 Division armies in the late game with a massive German, Italian army buildup and higher expected casualties than Mass Mobilization. Modifier stacking is so important. r/hoi4. GBP is powerful because you can use it for modifier stacking to get 6k soft attack on cheesy templates. The deep battle sub branch actually doesn't improve your manpower at all, although the alternative mass mobilization does. Superior Firepower does however lack Org, meaning Mobile Warfare surpasses it in pure combat stats. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. The main focus is to improve the ease of use. Mobile Infantry or Blitzkrieg?This is an easy one. There is also an argument to be made for Integrated Support if you are running lots of mobile divisions, as they will have no line artillery. Great post! 2. And that resistance grew by the day. Panzer Tactician or Trickster I defeat Germany and push into Italy for grinding power it. SF = better attack stats. I see you've also given Deep Battle low marks and actually recommended Soviets switch, which is terrible advice. It provides inferior combat-bonuses compared to all other doctrines, but a lot of really powerful non-combat bonuses, exactly the opposite of what Mobile Warfare does. Mass assault. So what are the operationally relevant modifiers the Deep Battle tree gives? This because you need those large . Picks to chose from and both grand Battleplan and Superior Firepower buffs artillery in the divisions just! Bonuses for out of supply or attirition situations. Which is better deep battle or mass mobilization? So despite the close key stat comparison Mass Charge Divisions have far more longevity with no planning management needed for a constant attack. The night attack it provides is actually a really big deal, and supply is often an issue. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Nazis believed the Red Army was not capable of defending Moscow, but their schemes failed". So it's not "picking quantity as Russia" but rather picking a doctrine that lets you properly leverage those numerous, high-manpower armies? Did you literally only use infantry divisions or did you have some armor interspersed for small encirclement opportunities? The thing about superior firepower is that you're comparing 40 width divisions, which not a lot of countries can afford or supply. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. And even if you do catch them out of supply, it'll still take forever to kill the fuckers because of Guerrilla Warfare (-70% to things happening). When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. Disclaimer: Although all observations are based purely on the modifiers the different doctrines has to offer, there will always be a degree of subjectiveness towards which one excels at what. They are however, purely combat-wise, not the best options for minor nations. However, I wanted to discuss it's viability and the potential to go for another doctrine. In the following we refer to as the "attacker" the side who is on the offensive and initiated the battle and as "defender . Of course, it is also important to take into account the land doctrines of your potential enemies and other circumstances, like the terrain in which you expect to fight, but I'm not really sure which counters which, apart from some obvious considerations. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army. Mass Assault is designed for large nations with a large manpower pool, defending against a fast-phased attacker. Develop detailed historic tanks and planes through research and army experience. and our Just compare the production costs for various things. Org was worse compared to almost everything else aswell. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. If you are in multiplayer, you might consider keeping it, especially if you expect to be overrun. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. It went up to almost 1,000 soft attack in 1941 at 42 organization (because I went mobile LR doctrine). Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved.! Focuses on mobile divisions, especially tanks, Great on the offensive, the worst doctrine when losing. This has a major impact on combat effectiveness. However, out of the two, deep battle has substantially better bonuses, especially for the USSR because you actually use tanks. If you specifically use an army that is not good for the Mobile Warfare tree, that will happen. Privacy Policy. Im playing as the ussr and am going for the mass assault doctorine. Combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Switching to Mobile Warfare is absolutely an option if you want to go with a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle. United States - Superior Firepower fits their playstyle pretty great. Cookie Notice Pick Mass Mobilization. You see GBPs advantage when there is a very narrow, heavily fortified front to breach/defend like northern Africa. You have a huge industrial power, huge manpower.. you just lack some good stat on your unit, so why pick the worst doctrine ? Poland has war goals against Poland to take Poland. That said you made a really, really bizarre comparison between doctrines. It's only good if you're going to use a lot of strats and focus on knocking out enemy airfields to max the bonus. Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the military was barely a Well. yeah. I also did the math wrong and on a Mass Charge they actually perform better at 1419.(473x3). I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. Mass Mobilization(4 Games)-Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. Encircled Units. 1 Explanation 2 List of Modifiers 2.1 State & Diplomacy 2.2 Industry, Trade, and Research 2.3 Land Army & Military 2.4 Airforce 2.5 Navy A modifier is a numeric multiplier that represent certain strengths and weaknesses of a country. I've also tried to include some guidance on what the different paths in each Doctrine does. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Guess it doesn't suit my play style. Second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China. Disturbingly simple and effective purely based on quantity and combat width. Cookie Notice Also using RART instead of ART it's 10 less SA for the SF Doctrine in this template in 1939. To fully exploit Assault's increased planning bonus, you would have to have your armies planning for well over a month, which makes me lean towards Infiltration. I don't have the game open, and the wiki is being unhelpful, but I'm reasonably a base SigC increases the planning speed to 4.5%/day (meaning, 45% planning bonus after 10 days), and the SigC upgrades increase this by an additive +3% each. Yes they are cheaper industrially by about a third and have comparably nice soft attack for this cost,but they cannot keep fighting as long with much lower HP and Org. Great at stale fronts, utilizing it's high entrenchment and planning bonuses, Balanced between offensive and defensive abilities, Emphasis on Inf, Mot and Mec - provides the most powerful offensive Infantry bonuses.

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